Transcript
Narrator 0:04
With crisis mounting in the Middle East and pressure increasing on President Barack Obama to intervene in Syria, the University of Indianapolis convened its inaugural Richard M. Fairbanks Symposium on Civic Leadership. On October 8, 2013 Senator Richard Lugar joined Doug Bandow of the Cato Institute, Robert Zarate of Foreign Policy Initiative, and Joshua Landis of the Center for Middle East Studies at the University of Oklahoma for a memorable discussion that focused on American policy towards Syria and the Middle East.
Former Hoosier Congressman Lee Hamilton moderated the wide-ranging discussion before a packed house in the Christel DeHaan Fine Arts Center. Although the experts often disagreed on the best policies for the United States to pursue, each advocated for a deep appreciation of context, urged caution, and expressed concern about the situation in Syria. Congressman Hamilton began the discussion by summarizing the conditions within Syria.
Lee Hamilton 1:04
Syria is a chaotic, confusing, challenging country. It is partitioned today into multiple centers of power. It is plagued, as you all know, by brutal civil war, and it is, without any doubt, one of the world’s most daunting humanitarian challenges. The estimates: 100,000 killed, that’s the UN estimate—some estimates are higher than that—6 million displaced, and more to come. Syria today is not a single country. It is a fractured land that is being pulled apart by many regional leaders contending for power. It is flooded by foreign fighters, from Iran, from Saudi Arabia, from all over the region. Most of the experts with whom I have visited do not consider Syria a existential threat, national threat to U.S. security. There may be some difference on that in this panel, but without any doubt, Syria is a country in which the United States has a lot of interests.
Narrator 2:22
Like Congressman Hamilton, Senator Richard Lugar believes that the conditions in Syria are dire. Lugar, however, is unsure whether U.S. intervention would really change anything in this war stricken nation,
Richard Lugar 2:34
Although many people say from a humanitarian standpoint, “How can you stand by?” But it’s not really clear that our help in that respect is going to save many lives, and it’s very probably we lose a good number of our own in the process.
Narrator 2:48
How did the United States find itself in such a tight foreign policy predicament? Robert Zarate of the Foreign Policy Initiative has a theory.
Robert Zarate 2:58
The crisis in Syria is like a cancer. It’s like a cancer. And had we done perhaps mildly aggressive but moderate things early on to try to deal with this cancer, it might not have metastasized. But what we have seen in the last few weeks, in particular, with that large scale use of chemical weapons and President Obama bringing us near the brink of the use of military force in Syria. We are seeing a cancer in Syria metastasize, and it will only continue to metastasize because it is a serious problem and it is not going away.
Narrator 3:29
Doug Bondow of the Cato Institute argues that long term goals, rather than short term objectives, need to guide American foreign policy in the region, and therefore urges caution.
Doug Bandow 3:39
This administration has no idea what it wants. Do we want democracy or stability? I mean, this is an issue in Egypt. It’s an issue in a lot of these places. We should just shut up. Because neither one is an obvious option, and we don’t control these streets. I mean, we don’t control what goes on in Cairo. It’s pretty obvious. Don’t keep saying things where it demonstrates your impotence. Try to work behind the scenes. Try to have modest objectives and realize the limitations. And I think on Assad, I would say I’d love to have him gone, but I’m afraid of what comes
Narrator 4:07
Whereas Zarate and Bandow criticize the incoherence of American policy, Joshua Landis believes that this anomaly may, in fact, be beneficial.
Joshua Landis 4:16
Well, it’s perhaps good that we don’t have a clear policy, but if we think about our own civil war, how many of you would have wished that France and Britain had intervened to stop the Civil War? Sometimes foreigners cannot fix the problems in another country, and I think that’s what we’ve seen. If you look at our track record in the Middle East, it’s not a good one. For Obama to look confused, is alright.
Narrator 4:47
Seeing the struggles in the Middle East through a comparative lens can help us understand the severity of the disagreement in the region. Landis speculated that a protracted struggle might even result in dramatic, long term change.
Joshua Landis 5:01
The Middle East, in some ways, I think, is in the midst of a religious war, not dissimilar to the one in Europe in the 17th century, where Protestants were beset by Catholics as heretics, and the Catholics thought they could still Stomp them out. That took a 30 Years War. It took lots of bloodshed. The Middle East still takes its religion seriously, and they care about heretics. We don’t want to get in the middle of this Sunni Shiite struggle. We don’t want to help the Sunnis try to eliminate the Shiites, or the Shiites try to eliminate the Sunnis. But that’s what’s at stake here. And in some ways, having a stalemate is good for ultimate reconciliation between the two sides. And that’s what happened that the Treaty of Westphalia in 1648, is that the Protestants and the Catholics agreed that they couldn’t wipe each other out, and that’s the beginning in a way of tolerance and democracy in the Western world. I’m exaggerating, but who cares?
Narrator 6:08
Congressman Hamilton punctuated the evening’s proceedings by reminding the audience to stay engaged. Following a lively question and answer session, he brought the evening to a memorable close.
Lee Hamilton 6:20
Well, I began all of this by saying that you and I are going to learn a lot on Syria, and if you haven’t learned something, you’re pretty dense out there.
Ted Frantz 6:32
This podcast was produced by the Institute for Civic Leadership and Mayoral Archives and the Department of Communication at the University of Indianapolis. It is made possible by the support of the Richard M Fairbanks Foundation, Indiana humanities and the lily endowment. For more information, please see our website, uindy.edu/mayoral.